Nadia: Well  I believe in science and facts so I think this theory is the most ridiculous theory I’ve ever heard. In most conspiracy theories I could at least understand where they are coming from and why people might believe them to be true but that's not the case here. I mean there is just an abundance of evidence that the earth is a globe that it feels kind of ridiculous for me to even have to explain. 

 

Ikhlas: Right, the evidence is all around us. So why do you think it’s so hard for conspiracy theorists to accept this evidence?

 

Nadia: Because they’re not interested in the truth, they're interested in proving a theory. 

 

Ikhlas: What do you mean by that?

 

Nadia: Let’s say they have a theory and I provide evidence that proves that theory wrong. Then they will say that the evidence was faked because that’s how deep the conspiracy goes and then that becomes the basis of their argument. From that point on, no matter what evidence I show them they are going to stick to the argument that it’s been faked by the government or NASA or big corporations because they’re not interested in testing a theory they’re interested in proving a theory. 

 

Ikhlas: That sounds awfully frustrating. 

 

Nadia: Oh you have no idea.

 

Ikhlas: Why then do you do it? Debunking theories and fighting with them if you know they won’t listen. 

 

Nadia: Because they have to be stopped. Because they prey on people. People who might not have access to high-quality education. Not to mention they teach children to distrust science and reject facts by feeding them lies and half-truths. And the bigger this community gets the more it threatens the state of education all over the world. I mean a third of US millennials are flat earthers, ​​nearly 15 million Brazilians are flat earthers and it’s the same all around the world. You'd be surprised how many of them are out there and their numbers are not insignificant. 

 

Ikhlas: Right, so Rana what do you think about what Nadia said? About how conspiracy theorists prey on the less educated and teach children to distrust facts. 

 

Rana: Well, I don’t think we prey on people. If anything we’re opening their eyes up to the truth which is that government organizations aren’t transparent with us like how they are hiding area 51. And as for the children, well I think it’s important for kids to doubt and be curious so they don’t believe everything that’s fed to them. So they won’t be gullible and easily controlled. 

 

Nadia: Yes it is important for kids to question the world around them but you teach them to reject objective truth. You can’t debate an objective piece of fact. There is a multitude of experiments everyone can do to determine the shape of the Earth. Hundreds of years of research and millions of dollars have been spent in pursuit of this and for people to question all of those brilliant scientists and engineers based on absolutely no facts is absurd. 

 

Rana: Experiments like what?  

 

Nadia: There are proofs all around you. It is not difficult to know that the earth is round. Let's start with a simple experiment. One of the things you can see yourself with a pair of binoculars is if you actually go out to a beach and there are boats the farther away a boat is, the more the bottom of the boat will disappear and you'll basically just see the mast of the boat that's because the boat is actually going over the horizon that's curved. That wouldn't happen if the earth were flat. You would simply see the boat getting smaller and smaller as it went farther away, but you'd be able to see the whole thing.

 

Rana: Well that’s an experiment that I have looked into multiple times as I have already mentioned, and that is where my flat-earth belief started. If you take a look at the Salton sea lake, there is clearly no curvature the farther you look into the distance, even with binoculars. Now forget the experiments. How would you explain NASA’s obvious photos of the earth that were altered and photoshopped to be round? There have been multiple photos that were and still are being used as evidence for the earth being flat. For example, the earthrise photo is clearly photoshopped. Once you bring up the luminance, you can see where the earth is cut out and pasted. NASA has continuously shown us doctored images. Another example is the blue marble which is an image from 1972, you can check it out. It’s a basic round image of the earth and if you speak to the artist from NASA, they state that the image is purely from data and it's not a photograph. It's purely edited. How do you explain that?

 

Nadia: Just because the images that we currently possess of the earth are doctored that does not mean that the earth is flat. There is actually a very simple reason why NASA doctors images. Most of the photos we have of the earth are taken by astronauts in the International Space Station and since that space station is in the lower earth orbit it is not far away enough to capture the entirety of Earth. This means that they have to string together multiple pictures to make up our globe. Photoshop is used simply as an enhancement tool.

 

Rana: I have to ask Nadia, do you truly think that NASA is trustworthy? 

 

Nadia: It is an institution made up of brilliant minds who are in the pursuit of knowledge. They are required to document every finding, every experiment, and every mission. And I know that no matter what I say you’re going to spin it and accuse them of faking findings and space missions. Those documents are not faked and I'll tell you why they cannot be faked. Just to create the paperwork that NASA had created. Just the paperwork to send people into orbit or to send them to the moon, that amount of paperwork would make faking it prohibitively expensive. No one could afford to generate that much documentation. Moreso, let’s say that there is a giant conspiracy and NASA is hiding the fact that the earth is flat. Do you know how many people it would take for them to keep that a secret? It just doesn't make sense. 

 

Rana: The way they proclaim their findings and sources shows otherwise. There is a reason why there are so many conspiracy theories surrounding NASA and why there are so many flat-earthers who refuse to believe in science. 

 

Nadia: I told you, no matter how much evidence, factual testable evidence I show you you will never waver. You will simply say “it’s fake” or “they’re lying to you” to anything I say. That is the entire basis of your argument, it is a cognitive trick that will keep you from admitting you’re wrong and that Ms. Jafari is how you manipulate people. 

 

Ikhlas: All right things are getting a bit heated so I’m going to stop this episode here. Let me just say, at the end of the day people are going to believe in what they believe sometimes regardless of facts and that’s just life. I would like to thank both our guests for being a part of this episode and a special shoutout to our audience members for listening. We are eager to hear your thoughts on this topic so please feel free to open up discussions in the comment section below. As always stay curious and we will see you in the next episode. 

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